Choosing Hardware for linux to be run upon, dual boot maybe

cat1092: Thanks for the warning about celerons, I'll make sure to avoid them, if my current machine "runs rings around them" then they probably aren't up to the standards needed for even basic tasks. As for battery life, i usually run with the machine connected to a wall socket, so the battery remains fully charged throughout.


Alos, when you say your PC came with secure boot enabled do you mean to say it was enabled and you couldn't change it's settings to accept linux as an alternative OS but you were able to turn it off to let both Operating systems boot? So you could get into linux eventually without problems, but to do so you had to lose the small security advantage which secure boot sometimes gives by turning it off entirely. To clarify, It seems that in many cases one must turn secure boot OFF to boot into linux, do you need to turn it back ON again to boot into windows or will windows boot in either case? In the case of dual booting would i have to be turning it on and off every time i wanted to boot into the other of the two operating systems?


Seeing as this tyoe looks reasonably good has anyone had experience running linux on it or similar models, I can't find any direct reference to linux on this exact type by searching google, so couldn't find any clearly relevant results with the serahc term "Linux on HP 15-g260sa".
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/laptops-netbooks/laptops/laptops/hp-notebook-15-g260sa-15-6-laptop-red-10107474-pdt.html
Thanks

Edited by rp88, 15 March 2015 - 12:54 PM.

 

 

Alos, when you say your PC came with secure boot enabled do you mean to say it was enabled and you couldn't change it's settings to accept linux as an alternative OS but you were able to turn it off to let both Operating systems boot? So you could get into linux eventually without problems, but to do so you had to lose the small security advantage which secure boot sometimes gives by turning it off entirely.

 

Well, back in 2013, it was doubtful that Linux Mint even has keys needed to run Secure Boot. Red Hat was one of the select few that did. 

 

Yes, Secure Boot was enabled when I received it with the Dell OEM or 'Home' version of Windows 8 installed. Before I even installed any other OS's. I had cloned that OS with Macrium Reflect, along with it's other needed GPT partitions, to a 120GiB SSD, though had to disable FastBoot and System Restore prior, as well as run Extended Disk Cleanup before it could be done. Afterwards, was only using half of the space on that 120GiB Samsung 840 EVO SSD, and for about a month ran it that way, with Secure Boot enabled. Credit goes to badr0b0t for this one, I'm sure he recalls.

 

However, I soon got tired of not being able to run Windows 7 on my best PC, and ordered another SSD for it. It was then that I realized Secure Boot had to go, as well as the GPT installed Windows 8. The recovery media wouldn't allow me to reinstall to a smaller than original drive, and even if so, would have been in GPT format. 

 

One thing that swung in my favor was that Dell is one of the few OEM's who provides a reinstall DVD w/out the extras (nor drivers) during the initial warranty period at no charge, they know many installs smaller SSD's. I ordered this at like 11AM or so, and it was here before 10AM the next morning (have 24 hour next business day service). This is what allowed me to, as you made a point of above, to install in MBR mode, so that I wouldn't have to switch between Secure Boot & MBR, nor would have I done so anyway, Windows 8 would have went out the door had it not been for Dell shipping that DVD. 

 

The original HDD was placed in a box that another was shipped to me in, with the OEM installed OS intact, just in case warranty service is needed. I'd just remove my drives, re-enable Secure Boot, and reinstall the OEM supplied GPU & RAM, it'd be in OEM condition for the tech to diagnose & repair. Sometimes, the unit must be removed from the premises for repair or replacement, and there's no way on this earth that I'd give them three SSD's & 32GB RAM, plus a better HDD than came with the unit. 

 

Actually, Linux Mint was the last OS to be installed on the PC, and that was a couple of months post purchase. 

 

Anyway, with the keys or shims included in many Linux distros today, and as long as you have no desire to run Windows 7, you won't have to go through the troubles I did. You will have to learn how to install Linux in the GPT fashion, which I didn't, however I'm sure there's plenty who has & can assist. GPT is preferred over MBR & has advantages over it. I would have preferred to keep Secure Boot & GPT like it was, unfortunately Microsoft, despite the fact that Windows 7 carries the corporation & units as well as licenses are still moving fast, refuses to port Secure Boot to that OS. So I did what I had to do to have all OS's installed. 

 

 

 

Seeing as this tyoe looks reasonably good has anyone had experience running linux on it or similar models, I can't find any direct reference to linux on this exact type by searching google, so couldn't find any clearly relevant results with the serahc term "Linux on HP 15-g260sa".

 

You may find some information on the HP forum as to those who have installed Linux on these units, however don't expect any assistance from them. Before installing Linux onto the new computer, be sure to create your recovery DVD set, you may not be able to afterwards, nor will the Recovery Manager work as out of the box. Just in case you decide to sell it later on, or in the event that a new HDD is needed. It's better to have these & never need them than to need & not have the set. Your warranty doesn't cover a corrupt or broken OS, just the hardware. 

 

As is with the computer you now have, you should test in Live Mode first, though with new hardware, I don't expect troubles. It's just that some or most of the OEM functions won't work as on the OS it ships with. 

 

And regardless of your decision, be on the lookout for any updates that may trigger an auto Windows 10 upgrade in the background after release. Microsoft is desperate to make Windows 10 a success, even if they have to underhandedly install the OS onto consumer's computers. There has been a couple of articles that suggested that MS may include Windows 7 consumers into such an update, though at this point, it's talk. As the date nears, I'll be watching every update closely, Google searching all that has to do with the OS. I caught them twice trying to slide 8.1 in on me in that manner already & have reported that in other areas here. 

 

There is also another possibility if you decide to hold out, this makes the 2nd Windows release in a row that MS has either heavily discounted, and in the case of 10, give away. OEM's whom have remained loyal to Microsoft has to be getting edgy, forcing some to look in other directions, or at least consider. They have many millions of employees globally & with computers as reliable than ever, they're not in a good position for at least the first year, to cash in on the success of Windows 10. The majority who jumps on the wagon will so so at no cost. 

 

What are these OEM's going to do, sit back & wait until MS starts selling OS's again? Sure, some will be sold, but not in the numbers that Windows 7 units did. They'll have to find a way to sell computers, be it with or without Windows on them, or layoff many employees. There are smaller Linux system builders, yet they're way too pricey due to lack of component costs. The larger OEM's hold the advantage, at some point will have to make a decision, hopefully distributing computers with mainstream Linux OS's installed. Acer & HP holds a contract with Walmart, and Dell is in the mix also. What better retailer on the planet is there to mass market Linux OS's through? 

 

Just saying, Microsoft isn't the only corporation with ideas, these massive OEM's has to have a 'Plan B' in place to keep the factories moving. Chromebooks are already one option for some. Dell has made two attempts to push Ubuntu, maybe they should throw Mint in the mix? 

 

Cat

"be sure to create your recovery DVD set"
Should this be done using the "windows file recovery" stuff to make a windows system image on USB, or must a more tricky method be used? Would it be better to image for this purpose with windows' own imaging method onto an external drive http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/create-system-image-in-windows-7-8/ or a third party program (macrium, acronis,etc). If i need to use a third party one please advise on tutorials to use and on which are free.

I want to make setting up the dual booting as stress free and risk free a process as possible, i really need to make sure that doing it doesn't leave the laptop without any running OS and doesn't activate any kind of kill switches within the hardware. Beyond making sure i have a system recovery disc (by this do you mean the ones that are supposed to let you load the windows PE environment?) and system images (windows system images, third party program images or both?) on USB/external hard-drive what else should i do. I guess having the windows activation key written down will be important, does this get supplied with the laptop as a sticker on it's underside or is it only of the "built into the BIOS" type which needs to be retreived and written down using belarc? I also need to know what software i will need to use to get the linux installation media (it can be done from USB or cd-rw can't it) ready and a full tutorial with explanations for all the possible error mesages on how the installation is done, because I've never fiddled about at as deep a level as the BIOS/UEFI before so have no experience of installing extra operating systems onto devices.



Thanks

Edited by rp88, 16 March 2015 - 01:37 PM.

 

 

I want to make setting up the dual booting as stress free and risk free a process as possible,

 

There won't be avoiding some stress, however you must avoid all risks by following the directions that ships with your computer. On HP's, there's normally a shortcut named 'Create Recovery Media', this is handled by the burning software that's installed (HP, as other OEM's, uses CyberLink for this & active recovery). 3 to 5 DVD's will be needed. There may also be a reminder to do this during setup of the computer. It is far more stressful not to be able to recover your computer to out of the box condition than to create a few DVD's when new (must be of the non-RW type, these will be rejected). These are often on promo in 50 count sleeves for less than $10 USD, what some local retailers charges for a 5 or 10 pack. 

 

Windows 8.1 changed their backup option to 'File Recovery', not having used it, have no idea of how it works, but someone else may do. It's not a Full Disk image of all of your computer's partitions, this much, I do know. It's been quite some time since using the backup software that shipped with Windows, and that's what came with Windows 7, back in late 2009/early 2010 that I last used it. That wasn't a disk image either, but enough to get Windows working 'in a pinch'. Everyone is different, I prefer more than what's needed to get me off the side of the road. Plus after installing Linux, that type of backup may be of no good. 

 

Macrium Reflect is the most popular System Backup software used of the Free type, of which I still use on some computers. The great thing about Macrium is their WinPE media builder, which allows one to image their drive from outside of Windows (& Linux). For a more efficient backup, it runs better when there's no Windows processes running. Therefore, if you use this method, when creating Rescue Media, be sure to create WinPE & not Linux, which can only restore backups that's taken be Macrium from when Windows is running. You can practice this on your current machine to see how it works. BTW, it's a product of the UK. 

 

Cat

"Windows 8.1 changed their backup option to..."
From what i have heard it is the same as the system image making tool tucked away under "windows 7 file recovery" in windows 8.0 . This process: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/create-system-image-in-windows-7-8/ see under part 3 of the page, it works on my windows 8 machine. I once asked a windows 8.1 user here to see whether those options existed on his machine, he reported they did.

"3 to 5 DVD's will be needed"
This i assume only works with DVDs not CD discs then, I'm guessing that the total of this recovery media is therefore several gigabytes in size. The recovery media that will be created by this process, are thye the same as system recovery discs done like this: http://www.howtogeek.com/131907/how-to-create-and-use-a-recovery-drive-or-system-repair-disc-in-windows-8/?PageSpeed=noscript , a device for getting a damaged computer into the recovery environment after which a system image must be used to repair the problem or are these 3 to 5 discs a full recovery solution on their own, able to get a wrecked machine back to factory fresh state with no other things required? Do the bundled pieces of software on laptops for doing this make it a simple follow through the instructions process or can making this discs be quite tricky? Also does a laptops use of these type of discs mean it won't work with system images at all, or will it be able to do both?

"Macrium Reflect is the most popular System Backup software used of the Free type..."
I assume it would be sensible to make an image with this whilst in windows initially before installing linux, have you found macrium to be more capable of restoring a system than windows system images or images made on discs by using the manufacturers software? Has it worked in cases where both of them have failed? If the windows system images don't work after installing linux would this type(macrium) and the manufacturers type(the 3 to 5 discs you were discussing) of recovery systems still be alright?

Alongside these three types of images are there any other steps i should be taking before attempting linux installation?

Thanks

Edited by rp88, 17 March 2015 - 02:57 PM.

 

 

This i assume only works with DVDs not CD discs then, I'm guessing that the total of this recovery media is therefore several gigabytes in size. The recovery media that will be created by this process, are thye the same as system recovery discs done like this: http://www.howtogeek.com/131907/how-to-create-and-use-a-recovery-drive-or-system-repair-disc-in-windows-8/?PageSpeed=noscript ,

 

Correct, this was also the case with Windows 7 computers, all of mine required at least 3 DVD's, one 4. 

 

One can create the Recovery Drive if desired, just keep in mind that the Flash drive needed for this must be 16GB or larger (you'll see when attempting to create this), and you can never use that Flash drive for anything else as long as you own that computer. Flash drives also varies in quality, it's best to have both options, I do have both, but trust the DVD's more than the set of 16GB Flash drives I bought for the purpose of creating what was in that article. I've never had a DVD set that was created with the Recovery Media Creator fail on me. 

 

On the other hand, have had Flash drives to, however I wasn't the one whom created these. They had been created by the owners some years before, were likely low cost brands (I know one was), and there's always the possibility that instructions weren't followed. There's been times that others worked fine. 

 

That's why it's best to create the DVD set, and store these in a safe place. You'll then have two fallback options, plus a drive image if you desire to run one. 

 

 

 

I assume it would be sensible to make an image with this whilst in windows initially before installing linux, have you found macrium to be more capable of restoring a system than windows system images or images made on discs by using the manufacturers software? Has it worked in cases where both of them have failed? If the windows system images don't work after installing linux would this type(macrium) and the manufacturers type(the 3 to 5 discs you were discussing) of recovery systems still be alright?

 

Yes, I have found Macrium to be more reliable & here's why. Your entire drive will be imaged (not just the partitions needed to reinstall the OS), on a new install, this will be a small image, and you can recover to out of the box condition if done when new. I still have the original backups to all of my new or freshly re-installed computers, my last one imaged at 3 stages when new. However, one is plenty, and keep it for as long as you own the computer. 

 

It's always best to have these Recovery options, and not only do I recommend this to others, I do the very same & more. Actually, my last Dell was imaged with three separate backup software brands at different stages of the Setup & I never use the same one two times in a row. For example, if I backup with Macrium Reflect this week, will do so with the version of EaseUS Todo Workstation that I paid for the next time & then AOMEI the next. It may be overkill, but like security, I don't place all of my backup needs in the same basket. Nor do I use the same backup drive each run, these are rotated also. 

 

As far as reliability of the software goes, there was one time in recent history that a backup wouldn't restore, that's why I always keep the last three, in addition to the originals. If you're using third party backup software, then the one that's built in won't be needed. As stated, haven't used Windows Backup in some time, if the software won't perform a full drive image, then I don't want it. If the drive were to fail, the Windows Backup wouldn't restore all of the partitions on it, just those needed for Windows operation. Meaning your Recovery partition wouldn't restore itself. 

 

Though if you would like to use Windows Backup between Full system images, you can. There is similar backup software for Linux, called TimeShift. 

 

And just in case all else fails, those 3 to 5 DVD's will bail you out of a jam, as each is created, they're also verified. One thing to think about, had the majority of non-regular posters here created that media, there would have been no need for them to post. Quite possibly, close to 50% of all forum topic wouldn't likely exist if those were available. Same with system backups. As you mentioned in another Topic in regards to System Restore, it could be that one of those older backups may be best to go with, reverting to the most recent one may re-introduce the issue. 

 

 

 

Alongside these three types of images are there any other steps i should be taking before attempting linux installation?

 

That's it for now.

 

Cat

Ok, thank you. I'd still like to be able to get more information on how to tell if a machine can run linux before buying it, I've tried contacting shops and manufacturers by email and both give much the same answer "We don't know we've never tested this", which doesn't give me any indication of whether the machine will be capable of it or whether it will destroy itself when i try (i have heard of some machine types bricking themselves when secure boot is violated).

Ok, thank you. I'd still like to be able to get more information on how to tell if a machine can run linux before buying it, I've tried contacting shops and manufacturers by email and both give much the same answer "We don't know we've never tested this", which doesn't give me any indication of whether the machine will be capable of it or whether it will destroy itself when i try (i have heard of some machine types bricking themselves when secure boot is violated).

I'm guessing most sales people have never even tried linux as all the computer guys I know have never tried it out, why would they, they make all there money on Windows.  Considering Mint is a very good place to start - why don't you search around to see what people are running on the Mint site.  Or just ask here to find a good one for you based on your price range.  There are many that come pre-installed, but, I think, that some here would say it is a better value to get something with windows then install free linux along side, you see.  Here is something to look at if you want to buy with linux already installed, some of these amazon pc's have linux on them, look you'll see: http://www.amazon.com/s/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&field-keywords=linux%20laptop%20computers&linkCode=ur2&rh=n%3A541966%2Ck%3Alinux%20laptop%20computers&tag=fnh-20&url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&linkId=JLWJ3RI562QQEQXF

Here are pages of articles about linux installing: http://distrowatch.com/?cx=partner-pub-1979814992302941%3A8421330539&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=computers+for+linux+install&sa=Go&siteurl=distrowatch.com%2Findex.php%3Flanguage%3DEN&ref=distrowatch.com%2Ftable.php%3Fdistribution%3Dpeachosi&ss=6762j3118716j27

Edited by pcpunk, 18 March 2015 - 06:31 PM.

Ok, thank you. I'd still like to be able to get more information on how to tell if a machine can run linux before buying it, I've tried contacting shops and manufacturers by email and both give much the same answer "We don't know we've never tested this", which doesn't give me any indication of whether the machine will be capable of it or whether it will destroy itself when i try (i have heard of some machine types bricking themselves when secure boot is violated).

 

rp88, I understand where you're coming from, I'll tell you like it is. You'll be very lucky if any OEM will help with Linux, some local shops may, but they'll also likely want to do the install to make the money. If you take that route, be sure to carry your own hand picked Linux install media, otherwise some will install 32 bit Linux in a 64 bit computer. 

 

Some shops also specializes with Linux, again these are not free. 

 

It may be that another member who's done it knows how the Secure Boot keys works during install. If I had installed that way, would gladly tell you, but never tried it. This, you may also wish to ask in the Windows 8.1 section, if you don't get a timely response. 

 

Just letting you know as to don't expect assistance from the OEM, unless they sell it with Linux, which will cost more. You may think 'Why?'. It's because all of that junk software that placed on the computer helps to reduce the cost to us, sometimes by as much as $250 per machine. These can't be installed with Linux, therefore the higher price. 

 

Cat

I'd still like to be able to get more information on how to tell if a machine can run linux before buying it

You can be certain that Ubuntu Certified Hardware computers will run Linux without any issues.

Edited by Al1000, 19 March 2015 - 04:05 AM.

I'd still like to be able to get more information on how to tell if a machine can run linux before buying it,

The only way to be sure would be to boot the PC in question from a Live CD/DVD or USB stick,  The best advice I can give you is, Intel over AMD processor, Intel seem more Linux friendly, As I do not use a GPU I have no advice here, On board Intel graphics work just fine for me.

You could also go here if you are interested in the Mint distros, which are Ubuntu based, but just another resource for you.  Good post Al000, I meant to add something similar.

http://community.linuxmint.com/hardware

 

Call all your local dealers and see if you can talk with a techie that is interested in linux, you might get lucky, then you will have a local ally. 

pcpunk post#42: thanks for the link, quite useful by the look of it. The problem with links like this(thanks for yours aswell Ai1000 post#40) though is then matching things in the list that work to things on sale around me.

pcpunk post#38: "better value to get something with windows then install free linux along side, you see.", that i thought too, and having a machine which can do BOTH windows and linux would be very useful to me. The difficulty is buying a windows machine on which i know linux can be reliably installed, when computer shops all respond with "We don't know we've never tested it". Thanks for your recommendation about finding the main Linux Mint forums and asking whether they think devices available around me are linux capable. I'm afraid your amazon link was to the US version, I'm in the UK and many things available in one country aren't sold in the other. The "distrowatch" link looked like a mine of useful information, but I'm not sure where to go on it to find things directly relevant to me.

cat1092 post#39: "You'll be very lucky if any OEM will help with Linux", does that mean manufacturers will alos try to completely sabotage the work of anyone trying to install linux on a machine they buy. Do manufacturers design hardware so it will brick itself if linux installs are attempted, so that users are prevented form performing the instalation by other means or do they have warranties which get voided as soon as linux installation is attempted (and then deliberate bugs in the hardware to ensure anyone trying to install linux ends up with a dead machine which they can't get the money back on)?
"don't expect assistance from the OEM" is that no asistance with the linux software or no assistance with any part of the hardware and the windows system to be dual booting alongside linux?
"that junk software..." Regarding this in general is all the bundled sh1t within the preinstalled windows OS easily removable by the minority of users who think to do so, or is it designed like full malware to be impossible to get rid of?


NickAu post #41: "The only way to be sure would be to boot the PC in question from a Live CD/DVD or USB stick" the problem here is that most shops indicate they refuse to refund computers from the second a user touches the "ON" button.

Edited by rp88, 19 March 2015 - 06:01 PM.

pcpunk post#42: thanks for the link, quite useful by the look of it. The problem with links like this(thanks for yours aswell Ai1000 post#40) though is then matching things in the list that work to things on sale around me.  I don't think this is that tough.  Get the specs of a system that is to your liking, then plug it into the Mint site or Ubuntu site and see what you get, it's not that hard.  There is a small risk - maybe you would be more comfortable getting something used to start with.

pcpunk post#38: "better value to get something with windows then install free linux along side, you see.", that i thought too, and having a machine which can do BOTH windows and linux would be very useful to me. The difficulty is buying a windows machine on which i know linux can be reliably installed, when computer shops all respond with "We don't know we've never tested it".  Keep at it, some Electronic outlets have many knowledgeable techie's you can speak with.

 

Thanks for your recommendation about finding the main Linux Mint forums and asking whether they think devices available around me are linux capable. I'm afraid your amazon link was to the US version, I'm in the UK and many things available in one country aren't sold in the other. The "distrowatch" link looked like a mine of useful information, but I'm not sure where to go on it to find things directly relevant to me.  Again, find a system that you like, then do a search and you will find many threads with folks that own the same systems.  Search the ukamazon.

cat1092 post#39: "You'll be very lucky if any OEM will help with Linux", does that mean manufacturers will alos try to completely sabotage the work of anyone trying to install linux on a machine they buy. Do manufacturers design hardware so it will brick itself if linux installs are attempted, so that users are prevented form performing the instalation by other means or do they have warranties which get voided as soon as linux installation is attempted (and then deliberate bugs in the hardware to ensure anyone trying to install linux ends up with a dead machine which they can't get the money back on)?
"don't expect assistance from the OEM" is that no asistance with the linux software or no assistance with any part of the hardware and the windows system to be dual booting alongside linux?
"that junk software..." Regarding this in general is all the bundled sh1t within the preinstalled windows OS easily removable by the minority of users who think to do so, or is it designed like full malware to be impossible to get rid of?


NickAu post #41: "The only way to be sure would be to boot the PC in question from a Live CD/DVD or USB stick" the problem here is that most shops indicate they refuse to refund computers from the second a user touches the "ON" button.

Answers in Blue above.  Remember, most of these OEM's are in bed with M.S. in some way - and is how they package and sell there pc's.  They are just trying to sell pc's, and perhaps in some cases they would want to make it difficult to install linux.  I'm not a techie by any means, but I have read of many who install linux on just about any pc available.  I'm confident if you just use these tools to find you a suitable pc you will be fine.  If you are that paranoid get one with linux preinstalled.  The other option(and probably the best) would be to get the M.S. version pc, back it all up and install linux with help from members here.  

 

Why don't you post you requirements and let someone here suggest one for you.  I have an old HP that accepted linux just fine.  I now have an oddball Acer that is being problematic, but it is old, and I got no idea what I am doing LOL, see ya!

Edited by pcpunk, 20 March 2015 - 06:38 PM.

Okay, I tried to do a search on Ubuntu, but as usual it was not that easy as I thought.  Here is one article from howtogeek which is a great site: http://www.howtogeek.com/185286/how-to-buy-a-laptop-for-linux/